Other People’s Shoes Podcast

Transcript source: Whisper (large-v3, cleaned).

Language: en (probability 1.00) Duration: 2295s (38.3 min) Welcome into Other People’s Shoes, the podcast where listeners get to step into the lives of others and see the world through their shoes. Your host, Neil Matthews, is a seasoned interviewer who has a natural talent for empathizing with his guests and drawing out their unique perspectives. Through a combination of storytelling and insightful questioning, Other People’s Shoes explores the lives of a diverse range of guests, from everyday people to celebrities and thought leaders. With a warm and welcoming style, Neil creates a safe and supportive space for his guests to share their stories while also challenging listeners to broaden their perspective and think more deeply about the world around them. So tune in to Other People’s Shoes with Neil Matthews and get ready to step into Other People’s Shoes. Welcome in to Other People’s Shoes. As you know, I am your host, Neil Matthews. Thank you so much for hitting play today. Really excited that you’ve decided to come hang out at our house today. Now, I don’t know about anybody else. That was like one of the joys as a child, getting to go to someone else’s house. In fact, I tell this terrible story. This is an awful story. I don’t even know why I’m sharing this with you. Maybe just to illustrate how I probably shouldn’t have been allowed to play at other people’s houses. Well, growing up as a kid, our home pastor in Carlsbad, his son was adopted. And my mom told me that kind of in confidence one day. Why on earth she would ever tell me this, I don’t know. My pastor’s son’s name is David, playing GI Joes one day. And I said to him, David, do you know that you’re adopted? And he had no idea what that was. That was an awkward moment for the both of us and even for his parents going forward. I bring all that up to say, sometimes in life we have some awkward moments. How are we going to push through them? I don’t know how that has any relevance on you today, but maybe a point to ponder. Help me welcome in my new friend, Karis. Karis, how are you today? Doing well. Thanks. Good to be here. You’ve never had one of those awkward moments, have you, that I just described in any way? That is pretty bad, I will say. Yeah, I’m sure I have. Nothing that comes to mind immediately. That was an awkward 15-minute car ride home, by the way, in the car for me. Were the parents upset with you? Oh, they were so gracious about it. Truly, they were. They weren’t really ready yet for that. So I think I maybe helped in weird ways to maybe make them ready for that. I don’t know why my mom, like to this day, I still don’t know why my mom told me that. I had a big blabber mouth back then. She should have known I was destined for something like this, i.e. podcasting or broadcasting of some sort. She should have just known. Love her to death, but she should have known. We love to lead off every show with this question. And that’s this. What style of shoe do you love to wear? Ooh, flip flops and Nike running shoes. Well, you know, we have that kind of in our backyard here in Southern Oregon. Nike is big here. Like it started here. I don’t know if you knew that, but it started up in the Portland area. In fact, Phil Knight is the guy that started Nike and he actually went to the University of Oregon and Stanford both. So the University of Oregon is actually the Mecca, if you will, of all things Nike. Fun fact. In fact, their first spokesperson was named Steve Prefontaine in a little fishing community called Coos Bay. It has its roots to Oregon. So why running? Is that something you’re into? help me with that. I used to be more of a runner. I loved running. My real sport was soccer. In order to play soccer, you have to run. So I love walking. I’m more of a walking person now. I like Nike. My parents do a discipleship with all of their grandkids and their discipleship groups are called Just Do It groups. Their motto is that. So I just, I don’t know. I like that too, because they talk a lot about just doing, just do it. Sometimes we just have to do the hard things that God calls us to do. I’ve never liked that phrase because sometimes I just don’t want to do it. Just like sometimes I’m just like, no, I don’t want to do that. That’s a good reminder to you when you’re sliding those shoes on that you just sometimes need to do the hard stuff. Good way to look at that. That’s awesome. All right. Well, getting into you and your story and what you’re about, kind of first heard us talking about these things called your only. What did that invoke in you? There’s a few things that came to mind. One of the main things was I have lived in this journey of chronic illness for 18 years now, and it’s been not something I ever would have chosen, obviously. I don’t think we ever choose difficult paths. God has really used it to show me so much about His power in our weakness. And for the first several years for me experiencing this, I really resisted the idea of wanting to be weak, to be humble to the point where I had to recognize I can’t hold it all together. I’m someone who really tries to keep my pain to myself, try to be strong and just move on. I thought, oh, I’m going to just get through this. I’ll be fine. But I came to a point where I couldn’t do it by myself. Very broken in a lot of ways. It was through that and continue to be God’s grace in my life where he says, my strength is made perfect in your weakness, where Paul talks about that verse and that passage has taken on a whole new meaning to me as I’ve had to walk this journey of learning to depend upon God in a new way. I never would have expected the enemy and my own insecurities along with this thorn in my flesh, I would call it, are all things that I’ve really had to struggle against. I’m not good enough. I’m not equipped enough. I’m in a place where I feel some days I can hardly handle it. And yet God continues to speak truth in those places. I don’t think it’s something where I’ve come through it and I’m on their side now and I’m good and I’m still walking this. And I was just reviewing the story last night of David and Goliath. God equipped David through his shepherding. So it was through killing the bears and the lions that equipped him to face Goliath and say, I got this. I may only be this small youth, but God has equipped me. He’s ordained every part of my life up into where I am now. Looking back now, I can see how God equipped me early on to be prepared for what he had ahead, even though we don’t always understand how God worked. That’s just something I resonate with a lot is feeling very under equipped. There are giants and every day. For me, it’s more like the giant of what am I going to deal with physically today? How is God going to equip me not only to get through it myself, God’s really made it a ministry for me now to reach out in my suffering and to give me a heart to really help others, give hope to others. What is the chronic illness and how did it come about? Kind of complicated. It’s not like a one diagnosis that is straightforward. I got parasites almost 20 years ago, visiting my sister. She’s a missionary overseas. Didn’t find it out for several months. And by that time I had a lot of issues like they were parasites that can go into different organs. Basically after that, I was treated and went through lots of, lots of different treatments and then was expected, okay, I should start feeling better pretty soon, but I didn’t. And I continued to lose weight and cascaded into problems with my organs. So I had kidney problems and heart problems and pancreas problems and in and out of the hospital for malnourishment because my intestinal system just never fully recovered. So I couldn’t digest food. Got Lyme disease five years ago, which has added other issues. It’s not something that I’m like, this is the diagnosis. And it’s kind of been a straightforward path. It’s been a lot of new things that have come in and the doctors haven’t been able to give me a clear, basically my immune system really took a hit and now I just am very susceptible to a lot of different things. It’s hard because it’s very unpredictable what’s going to be next and how to treat whatever it is. Wow. I would imagine you seem like a very pleasant person and it seems like there’s not a lot of things that maybe would quote unquote ruffle the feathers for you. Maybe I’m wrong in this reading of you. And again, we’re virtual, so it’s hard to say even face to face. I would imagine it’s been a very frustrating process. Yes. Very frustrating. Okay. Yeah. A lot of resources maybe being dedicated. And when I mean resources, I mean not only time, energy, efforts, but also cha-ching, cha-ching, some dollar amounts, I would imagine. And the frustration in walking through this. And you mentioned your husband. I would imagine somewhere along the way when you folks got married, there was this phrase, perhaps it’s pretty famous in a lot of settings when you’re getting married for richer or poorer in sickness and in health. And for him to walk through that with you, not knowing what’s going on with his beloved, his bride, his love of his life outside of Christ. Wow. How has that helped you on the day to day? I mean, you mentioned walking through this pain and having obviously this, I would imagine this amount of empathy for folks when they’re experiencing something. You’re like, listen, I not to overshadow you. I’ve been there too. Here’s what I’m been dealing with. Here’s what I’ve had to lace up and just do it sometimes going back to your initial statement? So what’s interesting is I actually initially started getting symptoms on our honeymoon. So my husband always jokes that I’m allergic to him because he’s like, you were fine until we got married. Sounds like a guy I would like to meet. Yeah, he’s great. Yeah, it really was from day one for us, something that we had to do together. So my husband’s in the military. We got married, he got deployed to Iraq and was gone for two years. So first two years, I’m new to the military in Alaska, where he was stationed, and he’s off to Iraq. Right away, dealing with the loneliness and the unfamiliar of the military, like I had no idea. So all of a sudden, I’m going to military doctors. There’s a lot of complications, not only with being sick, so many new things. And then being in the military, we are moved around a lot. 18 years later, we’ve moved 12 times. Lots of new doctors, lots of trying to catch people up and having to do tests over and over again because the previous doctor didn’t send on the… Yes, there’s been a lot of frustration in it. And I fully believe and know and have seen that God can heal and He does heal. And yet sometimes He doesn’t heal, which has been something I’ve had to struggle with immensely over the years because we have prayed so many times, of course, for God to heal me. One of the hugest miracles in our lives is the fact that we have four children. The doctors told us that we would never have children for a few different reasons. They are such a blessing in our lives. They pray every night for my healing, which is so tender and such a blessing to me. It’s a struggle we have to live with as believers, trusting that God knows best and that we don’t understand His ways. I mean, obviously, He tells us over and over again in the Word, His ways are higher than ours. We will never understand them. He chooses what is weak. He chooses what is nothing because He wants to show His glory and His power in our lives. It’s not been a smooth ride for me. I definitely have had moments where I feel I don’t know if I can go on another day. If one more thing goes wrong, how can I get past that? The thing I’m learning is God’s grace is there for our present circumstance. He doesn’t give us grace for tomorrow’s problems. I can look back and see, yes, God was faithful each time to meet me and to redeem me and to deliver me in each trial. It’s not easy. That’s why we need perseverance and endurance. And we all have things. For me, it’s my health. There’s so many different areas of suffering that we all go through in this world. It’s just a matter of how are we going to respond? There’s so many different ways that we can respond to what happens to us. A lot of it is just our choice of where we turn. What is our attitude? I, too, come from a military background. My dad spent 20-some-ish years in the Marine Corps. We didn’t move around as much. I was actually born in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Yes, I drank the water. Stop people asking me. I drank the water. Okay. That’s probably why I’m a little the way I am. I remember the military life from a dependent standpoint, from a son standpoint, watching my mom, watching my brother, watching my dad. And then my cousins came along and then watching them interact with our military life. Now that was towards the end of my dad’s career. So they didn’t really get the great benefit of having him gone all the time. But I’d imagine just how rough that was for you. Again, adjusting to not only married life, military life, being in a place like Alaska where you probably don’t know anybody and having to make friends real quick, right away. And then having all of this come on you. I love his joke, by the way, that you’re probably allergic to him. That’s quite funny still. Your story, your situation reminds me a lot of this. And I’m sure you probably know this story because it’s famous. This woman who is suffering forever and ever and ever. She’s hemorrhaging, not quite your situation, but she’s hemorrhaging. And all she does is touch the hem of Jesus’s sash that he wore and she’s healed. And Jesus actually makes this statement. He said, hey, who touched me? And the disciples are like, come on, Lord, really? Like all these crowds of people, you’re wondering who touched you? There’s been a lot of people touching you. And he actually makes a statement, which I’ve always found profound. He said, no, I felt the power go out of me. And I’m always like, what? What do you mean by that? It’s like, let’s camp there. Let’s figure out what that means. Wouldn’t it be just amazing if you could just touch his garment and everything would be gone and it’d be wonderful and perfect and great? Wouldn’t that be amazing? That doesn’t happen. And so there’d be the skeptics out there that say, how can you love and how can you worship? How can you give adoration and respect for this deity? That’s what they would probably call him. And yet he doesn’t want to heal you. So it’s interesting that you bring up that story because I, yes, I, I identified with that woman. And for many years, I really believed because I identified so much with her and like saw myself and like pictured myself in her story so many times, I was like, okay, God, 12 years would be a great time. So I was really counting on it. I’m like 12 years. Okay. You can heal me at 12 years. That would be such a great testimony. When that 12 year mark came and went and I was still sick. It’s kind of naive when I say that. I mean, who am I to tell God what to do and how to heal me? It just sounded nice. I really did struggle though. I was like, God, this is a long time. And I really have faith. Like I really, really, like I can, I can just, I have so much faith every day. I’m like, I have faith. I like some people are like, maybe you don’t have enough faith. I’m like, no, I have enough faith. I have enough faith. That is not my problem. I might have other problems. I have faith and I have seen God heal and I know He heals. And so to wrestle with that, I think that’s where I grew so much in my love and my acceptance of who God is. Coming to know Him in a greater way, we can understand God. That crisis of faith that comes of our lives not matching up, we believe they should look. Psalm 84 says, no good thing will He withhold from those who walk uprightly. It seems like a good thing would be health, would be healing. And yet it seems like God’s withholding that from me. Does that mean that his word is not true? No, because the greater good may be that I am coming to know him better, more intimately in sickness than I would in health. I don’t know that. I know that it has been in the desperation many times where God has met me and in ways that I can’t imagine meeting him or experiencing his comfort and his love and his fullness if I wasn’t struggling. It’s one of those things where faith really comes in and we have to say, I am truly walking by faith and not by sight right now. My sight says my life does not feel good. I know God is good and he is guiding my life. It’s a daily thing. A couple of years ago, we came out of this thing called COVID, where whatever you want to say about the masks, whether they worked, didn’t work, not here to get into that debate, whether you should have gotten the shot, whether you didn’t get the shot. And for you, that must have been a tricky time. If this is really real, everyone hyped it up to be your autoimmune system was probably at risk. I would imagine these times that God showed up, even though he didn’t show up at the 12 year mark. I don’t think that’s naive to think. Again, I think if you asked anyone, listen, you’re going to suffer 12 years or six years or 20 years, I think most people would be like, okay, cool. At least I know there’s an end in sight. But for you, there may never be an end. I’m not great with math, but I did some quick math. You said you had four kids. That’s 36 months if I did the math right. That’s nine months for each one. I would imagine that 36 month journey again with each of them must have been a challenge for you and wondering, am I going to see this bundle of joy? Am I going to walk through this? You guys weren’t even sure if you were going to have kids. And so then when the first one comes out, you’re like, yes, we did it. All right. And then the next one, you’re like, okay, here we go again. Like, here’s the roller coaster again. I can’t even imagine walking through that journey and the amount of faith it took to say, no matter what happens, we’re going to be here. We’re going to walk through this together. And again, I applaud your husband. Sorry, I’m going to be team husband right now. His efforts, his energy, maybe an example of that where God showed up, couldn’t have been anyone else. It had to have been him. I had had a really difficult night. One of the things that I have is I have neuropathy, but sometimes I wake up and my limbs, my arms or my legs will be completely numb or I cannot feel them at all. It’s very frightening to wake up and not like feel anything. And it takes a while. And then usually the rest of the night, I have just nerve pain going through my arms or my legs. And so I had that happen. And it was a very extreme episode where I had a hard time going back to sleep. Just the day before I had a conversation with a lady, a new lady from our church. And she was telling me how she had stomach issues for like 16 years. And then she’s like, I got to the end of my rope. And I asked God, I got down on my knees and I prayed and, and God healed me. I was so happy for her. But at the same time, I was like, what? Just like that? You just prayed and healed you the first time? She’s like, yeah. I was like, oh my gosh. I have been there so many times. I was just kind of wrestling with the Lord. God, why? Like, couldn’t you do that for me? It seems kind of selfish and kind of exposes my desire. Why is that selfish? I wanted to be fully rejoicing with her. I think I was kind of the back of my mind thinking, I wish that was me. Can’t we be selfish? Seriously, why can’t we? Why can’t you? Yeah. I don’t think there’s a person on the planet that would hear you speaking right now that would say what Karis is saying is selfish. She’s being absolutely selfish. She’s being entitled. She’s being pretentious. I don’t think anyone would have those thoughts. And if they are, they got to check themselves before they wreck themselves. Sorry, I’m quoting Ice Cube there. My point is, is I don’t think that’s a selfish act. I think that’s your vulnerability saying, God, why not me? What else do I need to do? That verse where it says, rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. I’m really good at mourning with those who mourn. I’ve been through it. Rejoicing with people, I think something I just, I’ve really been praying about. I think you can do both. I think I can rejoice with her and also say, yes, God, and me too. So that happened the day before. I had that really hard night. The next morning, crying out in desperation. I don’t even know what to pray right now. I feel like I’ve used up so many prayers. I live in the Psalms. I’ve memorized so many Psalms and I just pray them because a lot of times I don’t even know what to pray. The Psalms are a way that I relate to God and it is such a blessing. I opened up my Bible app to have some quiet time and to read. I read Job 23, I will tell you that every single verse that I read was like it was coming from my own heart. I’m not going to compare myself to Job because he had it a lot worse, but I will say that those words that he spoke to God, I couldn’t have spoken them more, the rawness of what was going on with me and also just being seen by God. I felt completely seen and understood. It’s hard to describe because I feel like it was very supernatural, which is how God reveals himself to us. It was a very intimate moment where I just knew beyond a shadow of a doubt God is for me. He is with me. He is going to see me through this. I’m 100% confident that he will. I came into that time feeling completely despairing, and I left feeling overwhelming with hope and joy even. I think many times where God has done certain things like he brings something, he meets me, he speaks to my heart where nobody would know this except God. And nobody could line this up except God. Do you know what your name means? Grace. Graceful, depending on the definition. I just thought that was profound. Some people don’t know what their name means. A couple of years ago, a friend of mine named Tina, she actually came on the show, somewhere along the way got ALS and it took her fast. I mean, I think she got a diagnosis and then within almost two years, she was gone. And I remember the day she died only because of the fact the University of Duke lost to Tennessee in the March Madness Tournament. And she was a big Duke fan and I’m a big Carolina fan. So we always had that fun rivalry. And I sat with her before she passed. And as I said, she was a past guest on the show. One of the things I asked her, I said, what has ALS taught you? And she said, you know, listed off a number of things. And then she kind of stopped and she said, you know, Neil, if I knew ALS was going to get Mike, my husband, closer to God, I would get ALS again and again and again if it meant him being closer to Christ and accepting Christ and really following him. I would do it all again. All the pain, heartache, I would do it again. And she said, I believe God gave me ALS so Mike could one day believe. Tina, are you kidding me? She’s like, no, I really believe that. And so I wonder in your situation, how it may parallel with Tina. Is maybe in God’s sovereignty, again, his ways, not our ways, his thoughts, not our thoughts. I mean, sometimes I wish his thoughts were my thoughts because there’s some people, let me tell you, there’s some folks I’d like to just do a little Sodom and Gomorrah. just let’s fire from heaven. Let’s maybe Elijah with the prophets of Baal, just light them on fire. God be fine. Getting back to Tina and the parallel with you is if people see you, your kids see you, the people at church, the ladies group, the mom’s group, they see you. And they’re like, man, I want that gone for her. Like I wanted ALS gone for Tina. And I would want that for you, by the way. But I don’t think it’s a matter of your lack of faith. Doesn’t sound like it. I don’t think it’s a matter of you praying, not praying. I don’t think it’s that either. I wonder what the testimony is going to be to your kids, what they’re going to see when they’re older and they look back on their adolescent life or when they look back on their life and they go, you know what, mom, pretty amazing. Have you had those type of interactions with your kids yet where they’ve started to see some legacy stuff being passed down or maybe some lessons they’re seeing in you in that moment? Maybe have that one on one time with one of them and they spat out something profound and you’re like, that’s why I keep moving forward. That’s why I keep doing this. Oh, definitely. Out of all the difficult things that this illness has brought on, I think the hardest thing is worrying about how it affects my children. In moments where when my second daughter was born, when she was six months old, I had to be admitted to the cardiac ward of the hospital for several weeks and put on a feeding tube. It was devastating. I saw her periodically, but all of a sudden, I couldn’t see my six-month-year-old. I really worried, is this going to damage her? Is she going to think I’m abandoning her? There are times where I feel like I can’t be the mom that I want to be, do the things that I want to do with them. They’re disappointed because I can’t. A lot of disappointments. But at the same time, I have seen they are so aware of people’s pain. They’re so aware when someone is sick or when someone is struggling, their first reaction is, let’s pray for them. Every night, try to pray together. The ages are 3, 6, 9, 13. The fact that they continue to pray for me every night. A few months ago, my 13-year-old came down the stairs and he was like crying. You know, he’s like, Mom, I’ve been praying for two hours for you. And he’s like, I’m just so frustrated because I just want God to heal you. And I don’t know why he won’t. And so then we were able to have a conversation. I mean, we’ve talked about it before. He’s really struggling why God does things and why he doesn’t do other things. So I see them wrestling. I see them asking questions that maybe normally kids wouldn’t ask because they’re not living in a situation where they’re having to face those things. We try to include our kids in our struggles. I have to share with them, I’m having a really hard day. Let’s pray. Let’s come together. Let’s seek God. It’s hard and good. It’s hard because it’s something I struggle with. And I pray all the time, like, Lord, please don’t, please don’t let them have hardened hearts because of this. Please guard them. I can only do so much, but yet I see also God working their lives in ways that I couldn’t manufacture. I couldn’t do this on my own. I just have to trust that God will carry them through. And ultimately they are his, their gift to us for a time. Both my husband recognized that we only have them for a time and we have to entrust them back to him. I’ll tell you, it doesn’t get any easier. I have a 16 year old. She can be on the next flight out if you want. My wife always says, why do you always try to give her away? I said, I don’t know. Maybe it’s just because if I give her away now, it’ll make it easier when She actually does go away. You know, her and I went to Red Lobster recently. I ate a lot of shrimp and just sat and just talked. We don’t do this enough, her and I. As a parent, as I’m driving home, she’s driving separately. I was driving home by myself. I thought, man, I remember Backyardigans. I remember Blue’s Clues. I remember Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. I remember watching these shows with her and playing dress up, playing hide and go seek in the house. And I remember these things and I’m like, man, they’re all going to be gone. You don’t realize that sometimes you just have to open hand. you have to let them go. And I think that’s the scariest part. My parents never told me it was going to be a scary part. You know, when we left, they were probably like open champagne bottles when I left. I hear your son’s heart. I love the fact of his heart for you to say, mom, I just want this gone. And again, is he being selfish in that? I’m going back to your word. No, I don’t think he is. I’m sorry. I don’t think he is. I think he sees a mom that he loves tremendously is tired of her being in pain. And I think that is going to wire him and prepare him. This all started on a mission strip with your sister. Do you ever regret that moment of going on the mission strip? Oh, I think about that sometimes. So she and her husband were actually missionaries. It was in Pakistan and they had just had their first child. And so I went over there to kind of help be with her for that time. I know. I mean, yeah, I think sometimes like, what if I didn’t go? It’s an interesting thought. I trust that God, if it wasn’t something, He knows how to get us where he wants us to be i think that again shows the character of you even back in those days you’re gonna fly halfway across the world to go be with your sister in a moment of her need in a moment of her joy i’m sure there was pain there’s always pain with childbirth i don’t care who you are it seems like that seems to be the trend there’s very few ladies that i’ve come across this you know childbirth it was like a hallmark movie it was amazing it was gorgeous it was so good it’s never like that as far as i’ve been told i’ve never experienced it myself nor do i ever want to so these people that want to you’re weirdos just saying you mentioned that time and your connection with your sister how has your sister helped you in this process knowing now everything that’s gone on so they moved to malaysia after that and i went back to visit them two or three more times and each time i went back i got parasites again but i kept going back my sisters i have two sisters and they’re my best friends none of us live near each other that’s just what we do for each other both my sisters have walked this journey with me and they have their own journeys. It’s irreplaceable. My older sister who has lived overseas for many, many years, they have been great supports. I mean, they have walked with me through this. I don’t think about it as the reason I went through this is because I was over there, even though that is where it started. I’ve never really thought about it very much, I guess. That there would be some that would say, well, maybe you have animosity towards that sister. If you had never gone, none of this would have happened. Others might say, well, wait a second. You got it once. Okay, cool. Then you keep going back again and getting it again. It’s like, do they love you or something? These parasites, they must. Maybe that’s why. They don’t know how to break up with you. They need a good Taylor Swift song to break up with you. I’m a very good hostess. Once you’ve been compromised, this is what the doctors tell me, it’s much easier for them to make home in you again. I’ve taken a break now from going overseas for a while. Tired of hosting, I see. Yes. People have a hard time with that. The connection with sisters, the connection with family. For those that maybe didn’t grow up in that amazing family, sounds like that you grew up in when you say your sisters are your best friends. Some would struggle with that. My sister, no, not my best friend. Probably way down on that list. It’s just the idea that family is so important to you. And I think you can see that coming out as you talk about your kids, as you talk about your husband, as you talk about even your sisters right now. So obviously mom and dad must have been kind of awesome in some levels. How has that growing up life maybe shaped you into propelling you forward into right now? Just to give you a slice of my parents, they are in their mid to upper 70s and they’re missionaries in China. Started learning Chinese a few years ago. They never plan on retiring. They plan on being missionaries until they die. I grew up as a missionary kid, so they’ve lived their lives really for the kingdom of God and really showed us what that means. It’s not just going to church on Sunday. It’s a way of life. And I grew up watching that. Thankfully, my husband’s on board too. So I think it was very foundational to experience that growing up and then also making that my own. I think for many years, I kind of did it because that’s what I grew up in. Then it was in my college years, I went to Costa Rica for a Bible school. And it was there where I really grew in love with Jesus. Like it was life-giving, joy-giving relationship that wasn’t, it wasn’t about rules, trying to do the right thing. It was more of a lifestyle. It’s so purposeful. I’m so thankful though, for that, for that example from foundation. Well, yeah, again, because a lot of people probably didn’t grow up that way. A lot of people didn’t grow up with being on the missions field, having to deal with not the latest greatest trends, I would imagine. Not like missionaries make a ton of money. Everyone that I’ve ever met is kind of near poverty level, if not even below. For you growing up and seeing the sacrifices that they made for others, I think probably shaped you in more ways than you probably will ever know. Truly, I believe that. But you mentioned again, the Nike thing. I’m going to bring that back full circle here. That guy, Steve Prefontaine, that I mentioned to you was Oregon’s first spokesperson for Nike was a runner. He has this famous quote. He says, to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. When you hear that, what comes to mind for you? What comes to mind is God really wants the first fruits of our lives. I think about the Old Testament and how God wanted the firstborn to be dedicated to him. He wanted the first fruits of their crops. He wants our best. It’s easy to give him the leftovers. We have leftover money. You’re like, here, God. Or if you have leftover energy or time, you’re like, here, God. I think two of like offering up a sacrifice of praise. It’s hard sometimes, hard to thank God, to praise when we don’t feel like we have a reason. It’s easy when we’re like, oh, rejoicing because God blessed us with this thing. For me, a lot of times I feel like it’s a sacrifice to praise and to thank God when my body feels so terrible. And yet it’s through the initial part is hard. It is such a gift when we take our eyes off ourselves and put them on God, when we start to worship Him, when we recognize who he is. And I think that also comes to what God calls us to, which have a calling and a purpose that God uniquely has for each one of us. And it’s not going to be the same for everyone. And it’s probably going to be difficult. About six years ago is when God called me to start writing and what I’m experiencing in my illness, more of a ministry, more of a outward thing. And a lot of times it’s hard. I started writing. I didn’t realize it was going to be a book. But when God called me to put it out into a book, It was really hard. I wrote a lot of very vulnerable, in-the-moment things that I just thought was for me. It ended up being public. I thank God for that. I wouldn’t have chosen to do that. I wouldn’t have really chosen to be in a place where I feel the weakness, I feel the struggle, and yet I have to keep speaking about it. But as I speak about it, it almost encourages my own heart. It’s like reminding me of God’s goodness and His faithfulness. The gift comes back to us when we offer him our best. The blessing that we receive is beyond understanding. There is sacrifice there. There is something that we have to surrender, offer, and give. When you mentioned the book, how can folks go to get a copy of it? Maybe ladies who want to understand a little deeper of the symptoms and how can folks connect with you and where’s the best way they can get the book? So the best place to get this book right now is Amazon. for the kindle version it’s 99 cents and then i have a paperback version on there my website is karismeier.com so just my first and last name my blog is on there and some other information and then i’m also on instagram and facebook so those are also places to connect there’s also one more place that you forgot that it’s going to be and that’s okay i get nerves they can kind of come over and take over so there’s this amazing place called opspodcast.com slash books that i love. And it’s going to be on there as well. So our long list of authors that we’ve had on. And so we want to honor you in that respect. Well, you mentioned your kids. You’ve probably played Candyland. Are you good at Candyland? I mean, is that something you’re you dominate at? Do you usually lose at Candyland? Help me with this. I usually try to lose so my kids can be happy. Because they’re not happy when they’re not winning. Wow. Okay. All right. no i have a few competitive kids that’s that game is like the most frustrating because you’re about to win then you go back to like the gumdrop i think is like the first one right yeah something like that i haven’t played it in a minute it’s it’s been a minute for me too but yes i’ve played with kids that are hyper competitive it never ends it feels like yep yep i hated shoots and ladders as a kid i don’t know why but i just never liked that game either so we do this silly thing at the end of our show called senseless it’s these six random questions and it’s a die roll So you’re in that, you know, Virginia, Northern Virginia area. Now, are you guys more Virginia Cavaliers? Where does the team alliances lie? If I was going to come pay a visit and play Candyland with the kids as far as team clothing, any soccer clothing, we do the real football. Honestly, don’t know much about any other sport. If I wore an Argentina jersey, would I be fitting in with the soccer family? Yes. Although Messi now is on Inter Miami. But I do know this. this’ll be maybe give me my street cred right back again. Probably the greatest female soccer player of all time. Do you know where she went to school? No. Do you know who I’m referring to? Not sure. So Mia Hamm. Mia Hamm. Okay. Mia Hamm. Okay. You’ve heard of her, right? Oh yeah, definitely. But Mia Hamm played at the University of North Carolina and actually helped them win in this national championships in soccer. She’s just fantastic. So we do this thing called senseless at the end of the show. These six random questions. I bring that up because I’m a big university of north carolina fans so the cup is in there’s the die and i’m gonna roll for you shake it up really good all right number one is this i know it’s a north carolina logo but promise it’s number one one place you need to visit so i know you said you’re not internationally traveling we’ll we’ll take that off the table i’m going international are you kidding i it’s okay I can dream I would love oh Singapore well I love Singapore but I’ve been there so a new place I would love to visit is Greece I’d love to go to Greece well last thing I want to say Karis is this first off thank you thank you for sharing what you shared I know at times I could tell people can’t because they’re not on the video with us there were times you kind of held back tears am I wrong in that no why did you hold them back if I can ask first of all I don’t cry very easily. I was kind of surprised that I started to, and I hardly ever cry in front of other people. I think it’s just natural for me. I just, I don’t know. I just was wondering if someone cries in front of you, it shows that they have a tremendous amount of trust in you because they’re trusting you with their tears. I know it sounds bad, but I kind of took it as a compliment. Like you trust me enough with your pain to share those. Well, again, thank you so much for being here. Well, guys and gals, kids and campers alike, that is it. That is all. That is our show today. How about that? What do you do when you have so much pain? All you can think about, all you can feel, all you can see is your pain. Now, listen, I know some of you a number of years back read the book, The Shack. I did listen to it like six, seven times, I think. Still one of my favorite books outside of the Bible. But there’s a line in there where the main character is told, if all you see is your pain, you’ll never see me. I’m going to say that again because maybe that didn’t resonate. Let me try it one more time. If all you see is your pain, you will never see me. Now I’m wondering about that for you. If all you’re seeing truly is your pain, are you ever going to see him? Now him, just so you know, is God, Jesus, one and the same. So I’m going to ask you that question today. How much pain do you have? And is he big enough to take that pain? And listen, he may never take the physical pain from you as we just discovered. He may never do that. Okay. But what are you going to do with that in the meantime? Let me know. I’d love to know that. OPSpodcast.com is a great place to let me know. You can let us know on the socials at OPSpodcastshow on our Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. As we get out of here, don’t forget this. Remember when you walk in other people’s shoes, you really do get a different perspective on life. I want to thank you so much for listening. And by the way, stay tuned till next week when we walk in other people’s shoes.